There is the unwritten, yet commonly held, 
Doctrine of the Irresistible will of God. 

Based on these premises: 
1. God is omnipotent. 
Being "all powerful" carries with it the idea that there is no power in creation that is _not_ of God. 
2. God has "everything under control". 
That is: everything that happens can be traced back to an act of, and therefore the "will of", and "power of" God. 

In other words: Gods will is irresistible. 
That is "His will is automatically implemented in creation, and in our lives. " 

Which brings up some traps and errors. 

There is the "all is God's will" trap: 

"I am sick by the will of God." 
Of course. It must be. God has all under control, how could it be any other way? 

"God took little Jimmy home..." 
We do not want to think anything else of poor jimmy... 

"Granny was the greatest saint of God I have ever known, I do not know why God allowed her to have cancer." 
The only solution is that it was the will of God. Surely, one so righteous and faithful as Granny could not be at fault. It must have been God, and no fault involved. 

There is the doubt/resignation trap: 

"I need this Lord, IF it be according to your will..." 
If it does not happen, then we can just assume that it must not have been His will. This leaves no room for lack of faith on your part. Rather it assumes the integrity of your belief and attempts to define the nature and will of God but the fruit of your faith (or doubt!). 

"Why should I pray? if it is not His will, He will say no... if it is His will, it will happen anyway... He knows best, and I just believe He will do what is best for me..." 

The error of the "general faith" theory is evident. It is an attempt to elevate "hope" to the position of faith. Faith is exact and specific. It knows what His will is, and believes it to be so in the face of contradictory circumstances and physical evidence. 

"I do not know what you want me to do Lord... I will pray your will be Done, and wait to see what happens." 

Again, the prayer attempts to define the will of God by resulting experience, rather than by the Word of God. Here the "general faith" theorist attempts to define the will and therefore the nature of God by the fruit of his own faith. "I did not receive, therefore it is not God's will for me to have it." Again, this assumes the belief and the integrity of the man, rather than the goodness and integrity of God. Oddly, the proponents of this thought claim that they are honoring the power and glory of God. In reality, they are declaring the infallibility of their own "belief" and "reason" at the expense of the declared goodness and mercy of God. 

The frightening statement of Jesus looms over the heads of these. 

Mark 6:5 (YLT) 
and he was not able there any mighty work to do, except on a few infirm people having put hands he did heal [them]; 

What you do not believe inhibits the ability of God in your life. His ability in your life is directly proportion to your specific faith. Hence His will is not automatically effected in your life by a "general faith".

In all this, we can only join with Jesus: 

Mark 6:6 (ASV) 
And he marvelled because of their unbelief..." 

and pray we do not fail by the same example of unbelief. 
Heb 4:11 


A Friend Writes: 
"...You really think Salvation is my concern? (meaning I ask Jesus in to my heart kind of salvation by a little prayer) no, I am concerned with the church drawing near to God instead of the ways of this world that when persecution comes that they will be ready, that they will not seek the things the gentile seek that they will not be distracted by there own needs and will seek only the needs of others, that abiding in Christ will not be down graded to a bunch of formulas of success..." 

I commend you on your frankness and straightforwardness. Most people lapse into religio-theobabble when addressing these topics, tying to justify themselves rather than God. 
But consider, my friend, the way God intends for us to prepare for oncoming evil days: 

Ephe 6 (YLT) 
10 As to the rest, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might; 
11 ***PUT ON THE WHOLE ARMOUR OF GOD, FOR YOUR BEING ABLE TO STAND AGAINST THE WILES OF THE DEVILl***, 
12 because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;
13 because of this ***take ye up the whole armour of God, that YE MAY BE ABLE TO RESIST IN THE DAY OF EVIL, AND HAVING DONE ALL THINGS, TO STAND***. 14 Stand, therefore, having your loins girt about in TRUTH, and having put on the breastplate of the RIGHTEOUSNESS, 
15 and having the feet shod in the preparation of the GOOD NEWS of the peace; 
16 above all, having taken up the shield of the FAITH, in which ye shall be able all the fiery darts of the evil one to quench, 
17 and the helmet of the SALVATION receive, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the WORD of God, 

There is the conspicuous absence of sickness and poverty in this list, rather: truth, righteousness, the GOOD news, FAITH, SALVATION, and the WORD are our weapons against the devil in the evil day. 

>>>> ...you assume that the devil does put sickness on people, but I think it is sin.<<<< 

Again, thanks for your frankness, but I think it is both. The devil is come to kill, steal, and destroy(John 10:10). And he who sows sin in the flesh will reap corruption in the flesh (Gal 6:7-8). I was going to get around to this in a post about what the real cause of sickness is in our lives. We cannot forget that in many (most) cases, it has nothing to do with sin, or the devil. It is simply an act of nature. Birth defects, disease, a broken limb due to gravity, etc... These things are a fact of life, and their causes are self evident. But God seeks to releave us of these also.

>>>>Mainly most of the time it is abuse to our selves that cause our problems. <<< 

I agree completely... many of our problems are our own fault. What I am concerned about, is the effort by some to _accuse God_ of these things. They seek to justify themselves. Instead of admitting their own part in sickness, whether it be abuse of their body, sin, or downright unbelief... they get "spiritual"... and declare their sickness to be "God's will" in their lives. Oddly, they then proceed straight to the doctors office to get out of "God's will". They say God wants them sick, yet they will take medicine to releave the symptoms of "God's will". If they really believe it is the will of God, they should drink the cup to the dregs, and be as sick as possible. They site the "thy will be done" prayer of Jesus in the garden (after which Jesus went forth to suffer and die according to the will and plan of God). They pray the same prayer, but do not attempt to go forth (as He did) to fulfill the plan of God, and in fact do everything in their power to thwart His "will"! Their arguement sounds very "religious" and "spiritual" on the surface... but once you think it out, it makes no sense, spiritual or otherwise. 

>>>You assume that we believe that God places sickness and poverty on us but that is because you have been taught that we believe this, but as I show above it is not so, we by our own neglect or abuse cause our own sickness and God uses the opportunity, He alows us to make our own choices, either to serve Him in every thing or not to live healthy lives or not. He does not stop us unless we let him (some time like in the situation with Jonah He decides differently.)<< 

I agree with this concept. God can certainly take a bad situation and turn it to His and our good. I hope that you will agree that His highest and best is that we are faithful, obediant, and responsible to start with. In this, we will not come into these problems (tho remember that in many cases, it is not the sufferers fault, it is a problem created by the devil, or by nature). If we fall in a ditch, He will help us out. And it is best if we avoid the ditch to start with. But it is error to say that He pushed us in! 

>>>I don't think necessary that God purposely makes people sick or die (although He certainly has done so as evidenced in the Bible), He may **allow** these things to happen to line up with His will in the end anyway. Like with Job, he allowed Satan to afflict him, but it was Satan's doing, not God's. And that was God's way to testing Job; Job didn't denounce God like Satan thought he would. But he did fail in that he even questioned God why it was happening. God reminded him that He is in charge of everything and all we have to do (or can do) is trust Him, through good or bad.<<< 

The writer of Hebrews exhorts us to "hold fast to the profession of our faith". 

I am not sure that "...He is in charge of everything and all we have to do (or can do) is trust Him, through good or bad..." is even a profession of faith. It is more (as I pointed out above) like a devotional resignation to the inevitable: whatever comes must be of God, and as long as we don't bad mouth or question, then that is faith. 

It seems like so many believers got through with the plan of salvation and just stopped there. Nothing more. 

Whatever happened to "fight the good fight of faith"? If all this were true, then Paul should have written "surrender to the inevitable suffering of doubt". 

If this is faith, then what is doubt? 

This is my arguement in a nutshell. 

What does this kind of psudo-faith give you that you would not have without it? All the things "believed" would still be true, still occur, and still continue as if you did not believe anything at all. How does one benefit from a "general faith" gospel that believes everything in principle, but nothing specifically? How is such a believer different from a non-believer. 

I have heard many criticize those in the faith movement, saying they are being "presumptious" rather than having faith. Yet I see those who prescribe to the "general faith" on the opposite end of the spectrum: in that they will live the same un-abundant life the unregenerate lives. "Resignation" being a substitute for faith. "Assumption" rather than "presumption". 

One does not need the Word or Holy Spirit to grow in resignation faith, one only needs to give up! 

That God is not responsible for the sicknesses of mankind is a fundamental of faith, and one that seeks to justify and glorify God rather than accuse, condemn, and call in question His doings. 

God spoke to Job saying: 

Job 40:8 (ASV) 
Wilt thou even annul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be justified? 

Before we accuse God of evil things that may occur in our lifes, we should admit our own error and take the blame ourselves. He loves us and has never hurt us, nor will He ever. This, in my mind, is true faith. 

>>>I would like to ask a question: where does contentment come into place?<<< 

I think you are assuming that the reason I speak of healing and prosperity is because I am not content. I and my family are fairly prosperous now, and have been blessed with good health. So you see, I do not speak of these things out of discontent, rather because I see so much suffering around us. It is my heart desire to see people healed and prosperous. I _have_ been poor, and know how devestating it is to you and your children. 

>>>I do believe strongly in healing, but I have a hard time with one who teaches it as if it where the pinacle of the faith,<<<

When I first came into the Pentacostal Church, everyone used to ask me why we always spoke of tongues. They would bring up the subject, and then wonder why we spoke about it. 
I hope you do not think that I teach healing as the single most important thing in the doctrine of Christ. It just always seems to come up, and the debate takes off. Also, I think that because it is so very easy to illustrate the principles of faith by using healing as an example, we tend to speak of it often. But to be fair to myself, I think that I personally use prayer just as often if not more than healing to show how faith works. Also, to a person who is deathly ill, healing is a _very_ important topic. Just as food would be to a starving man. I think Jesus considered healing a very important subject, since He never failed to heal everywhere He went.

>>> I have seen many healed by God through me and have been healed by God, but I always have seen Christians without contentment mainly in the Faith movement no matter how healthy and weathy.<<<<

I am not sure if what you are seeing is discontent my brother. We are very excited about what God has done for us through Christ Jesus, and are trying to hold fast to the profession of our faith. I can see how you might see our actions as discontent. 

>>>You teach us to seek the gifts but I believe it is more important to seek the Giver.<<< 

I agree. How long does it take to find Him? A week? A year? A lifetime? I found Jesus 25 years ago, and have sought to walk with Him. What do you think I am not doing that I should be doing? 

>>I know that you will agree on my second point but, you are backwards in your teaching, maybe because your "faith" is a power or force or maybe because your teachers drownd you in these teachings, in any case You should teach others to seek God, if health and wealth come from it then so be it.<<< 

Well, I do teach folks to seek God when I get the chance. But again, this is not a life long journey. You can find Him in a day, and learn His ways and how to walk in the Spirit in a fairly short time. It is all in proportion to your dedication to the Word and the Spirit. As I said, I have been walking with Him for 25 years. When do we get beyond milk and on to the meat? And even babes are able to appropriate the good things of God either by their own faith, or by the faith and gifts of others. Many of the healings and miracles of the gospels and Acts were performed fairly early in the lives of the believers, if not when they first heard the gospel. 

>>>Christans need the foundation to stay content in Christ before anything, they do not need to be taught "confess your healing and you will recieve"<<< 

But Jesus taught this very way in Mark 11-23-24. 

>>>the need to be taught " rely on Christ the giver of life or draw near to God and He will draw near to you".<<<

You are quite right, if they are not near Him, they should draw near Him immediately. I would like someone to tell me exactly how to do this (from a scriptural point of view). I think you will find that the way this is done is by faith, and faith comes by the word of God. You are never going to draw near to Him or rely on Him without His word. To rely on Him means to rely on His word. To draw nigh to Him means to draw nigh by doing the things revealed in His word. 

>>>I know this is not your only subject (health and wealth) but it is the subject that the flesh loves,<<< 

Well, I am no fool, nor am I a liar. Given the choice between sickness and health, I will take health. Between poverty and prosperity, I will take prosperity. For myself and for my children. I do not think that thinking this way is "of the flesh". It is the reality of the world that God put us in. As I said above, I am not preoccupied with it, but I thank God for it, and rejoice in His provision. I do think that seeking to achieve some sort of spiritual or religious higher ground by denying yourself or your family these things is dangerous. My righteousness and salvation was purchased for me by the blood of Jesus, and no works or denial of the normal needs of the flesh are going to increase my righteousness one inch. 

>>>the stuff I mentioned above might not give you the Copland spring in your step but it will give you the love of God, even for the general faith people as you call them. >> 

I received the love of God by receiving the divine nature of God. I could not do it before I was born again. I was an evil tree and could not put forth good fruit. Now I am a good tree by faith in the operation of God when He raised Jesus from the dead. It is no longer I that loves, it is Christ that loves in me. In Him I live, move, and exist. I am nothing without Him. I am not sure exactly what Copeland teaches, but I am confident that this is very close to it. 

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