Quote: But how can we presume to know that God's will for us is to be "healthy and prosperous" It is not presumption. My question is how can you look a Jesus and still claim that you do not know the will of God? He showed us what it is.... exactly and completely. Why is it presumption to just believe in the Jesus revelation of God? He has given us all things that pertain to life and Godliness. All the promises of God have been made yes and amen in Christ. What is there left to do but accept it? Quote: So there are verses that say God bore our sickness, that he healed us of our disease. Well, look at the entire Bible. Of course we can look at the entire Bible. But again and again the word says that there are parts that are more 'weighty" than others. There are parts that pertain to us as born again believers and other parts that no longer pertain to us because of what Jesus did. We look at the whole Bible, but we rightly divide it. What happened to Job could never happen to a born again believer who is walking in the light of the word. The devil would have to defeat Jesus and cast Him out of Heaven... and that is not going to happen! Quote: Do all people who prayed and believed in God get healed? Um....no! OF course not. There were those who Jesus could not heal. Read that again... he COULD NOT do any mighty work of healing because of their unbelief. Mark 6:5-6 ALT 5 And He was not able to do any miraculous work there, except having laid His hands on a few infirm [or, sickly] [people], He healed [them]. 6 And He marveled because of their unbelief. And He was traveling around the villages in a circuit, teaching. Quote: Do some? Absolutely! Do those who pray and believe in God have God with them all the time? Absolutely. Point is they are not believing... if they were they would receive. All who ask in faith will receive. That is an immutable law. It cannot be broken and there are no exceptions. Quote: So, once again I ask you, was Paul a "lesser" Christian since he wasn't healed of his sickness? Did he "miss the promise" by sin, doubt, or the devil"? Well... in fact, yes. He was a rather prideful fellow by his own admission and so the devil (not God) recevied license to have a demon follow him around and buffet him. He was constantly under persecution and attack. He, BTW, was not sick. Nowhere does it say anything about being sick. Quote: What did he say...he said that God was allowing him to have that... We need to stick with the facts. God did not say anything was being allowed. It was the devil doing it. Not God. It was a messager from satan... not from God. And it was not sickness... it was a demon who stirred up strife against him. Quote: He mentioned that "my strength is made strong in my weakness" Ok.... what happens when the strenght is made perfect? Quote: Look at Job. God allowed Job to lose all his wealth. He allowed Job to lose his health. He allowed Job to lose his family. Again. you are confusing God and the devil. The devil did these things, not God. But these things could never happen to a believer who is walking in the light. I can image the devil approaching Jesus at the throne after Jesus whooped him but good on resurrection day. I don' think the devil wants another whooping. Quote: The point is, he was faithful...and God rewarded him in the end. When is "the end". If you are going to Job as an example, then follow through with it. Job suffered at most 8 or 9 months. Have you suffered this long? If so, get on with it. Job did not die and he did not suffer for a lifetime. He was totally healed and had everything restored 3(?) times over. Quote: We are going to be rewarded in the end for fighting in the race. He already has. We are all rewarded with the benefits of the gospel when we diligently seek Him. The end has come. It happened when Jesus rose from the dead and the covenant was enacted. There is no need to wait any longer. Quote: I believe God is able and willing to heal me if he sees it as the best thing for me. He does. He did it 2000 years ago. He displayed His will for you in Christ. All you have to do is start siding with Him. Quote: Do I want to be healed? Absolutely. Do I think God wants me to be healed? I KNOW he wants me to be spiritually healed, yet as God hasn't answered my prayers yes as of yet, I can only trust God to be either saying "wait" or "no." If you believe that He wants you "spiritual healed"(whatever that is... I have never seen that term in the scriptures, I thought we were born again, not "spiritual healed") then you should also believe He wants you to prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers. Quote: Is that a bad thing? No! God has helped me to trust in him so much through this. By no means am I saying he's neglecting me. I say that he is being so good to me, because I can feel his presence helping me get through every day. Therefore, I consider this trial to be a BLESSING from God. It is commendable that you are willing to suffer howbeit in ignorance. He does not want you to suffer, but if that is the level of your faith and that is all you can do, then prasie God! Quote: Don't assume that all people who are sick consider God a child abuser, Well, I did not exactly say that... but that is what it sounds like to me. If I refused to see to the needs of my children and even inflicted them with sickness, that is not only child neglect... it is child abuse. I realize that people who profess this are doing so in ignorance.... but it is sad non-the-less. Quote: and please, if you want, believe in the WoF beliefs, but please don't say that I'm sick because of my sin or lack of faith. I will leave it to God and yourself to come to that conclusion. I only know that I must confess and be true to His word. If I have a choice between saying God is responsible for my sickness or that I have failed in some way.... I am going to say I am the one that failed. I will do that before I accuse my loving heavenly Father of such things just so I can feel better about my spiritual condition. I fail... God does not. I doubt, but God has promised. He is true. He loves me even if I fail. But I pray I never return to the place where I accuse Him just to justify myself.	PORN Death FIRE Logosystem